On the subject of Kongregate, I think you overlook the various business models OTHER than advertising that really require the sticky-factor of community, skill-gaming and item sales in particular. The games they've greenlit so far sound really cool too, a higher premium of production value certainly, and hopefully design innovations that match the high concepts.

Basically, if you've got a meta-game loop that nests the faster minumum play cycle, then community features not only make sense but are part of the meta-game. As far as procedural rhetoric goes, there are some tremendously interesting possibilities. An example of this, check out ShoshiLand, a game I just discovered today. I'm trying to pull off the same thing with Loot, a community of thieves who came for the plata but stay for the solidarity.

I'm a bit biased since I submitted Loot to them a week ago.

On the subject of Kongregate, I think you overlook the various business models OTHER than advertising that really require the sticky-factor of community, skill-gaming and item sales in particular. The games they've greenlit so far sound really cool too, a higher premium of production value certainly, and hopefully design innovations that match the high concepts.

Basically, if you've got a meta-game loop that nests the faster minumum play cycle, then community features not only make sense but are part of the meta-game. As far as procedural rhetoric goes, there are some tremendously interesting possibilities. An example of this, check out ShoshiLand, a game I just discovered today. I'm trying to pull off the same thing with Loot, a community of thieves who came for the plata but stay for the solidarity.

I'm a bit biased since I submitted Loot to them a week ago.