I still feel uneasy about these games, but not for any of the reasons listed in the NYT article. I don't see a real effort at communicating faith in these games.

Scattering bible verses throughout a FPS does not, to me, make a worthwhile Christian game. I want to see something that demonstrates moral consequences, or illustrates how God works in our lives.

This quote reflects on what's missing, to me:

"There is, however, one vital element of the 'cool' secular gaming experience that Christian developers say they will not embrace: the moral relativism embodied in the R.P.G., or role-playing game."

So why not make an RPG _without_ the moral relativism, and illustrate what happens when you make bad choices? Let people fall into addictions, act out of rage, etc, but then illustrate how this harms you in the end and pulls you away from God. If the character is never allowed to stumble, how in the world can they illustrate redemption and forgiveness?

As a Christian gamer, I'd feel silly playing a FPS where you're running around zapping Roman soldiers with a sword. It's a horrible choice of genre to communicate anything meaningful in, and turning spiritual warfare into a shooting gallery isn't really doing justice to the concept or the message.

The adventure genre that the 'Oddessy' branded games use is more fitting, but how about something that's aimed for the average gaming age of 20-something?

First comment: You don't have to worry much about rain that time of the year here in Portland. Once the 4th of July weekend is behind us, we don't see rain again until Memorial Day weekend.

Second comment: As an aging (aka "old") 60's radical, the GDC isn't exactly something I would normally put high on my list of places I'd expect to be found, but I did a couple of seminars last summer, and had a great time. Very interesting folks, and aside from some fundamentally different outlooks on life, when it came to the issues facing independent developers trying to find new business models that work, I was pleasantly surprised to find how much we had in commond.

And let me know if you and Ian are coming to town. Maybe we can get together.

Ok, look, I don't mean to be cynical... again... BUT how can you take a guy seriously who makes statements like ''We're taking the land back from Satan''?

Ok, here's my take on the Times article:

"When I became a Christian in 1992, I still wanted to play, but it was hard when the best-quality games out there were Doom, Quake -- Satanic stuff, you know? Stuff that if I went to church on Sunday and came home and wanted to play a video game, I kind of felt a little bit guilty about it."

The point of Doom is that you are single handedly fighting against the forces of Satan himself, literally taking the land back from him. It is an anti-satan game. That's the point. These other games they speak of like Catechumen are nothing more than propaganda vehicles. They certainly don't work as games on their own, so clearly they are intended as a delivery system for a very specific message. And who is going to buy this game? Do these companies honestly think someone's going to go to a game shop and say wow, Halo 2 looks so great, but this crappy game about lobbing swords at Romans has truly made me believe in the word of God, I think I'll buy their other games! No. The only people who are going to buy these digital propaganda devices are the people who already believe it and are looking for methods of reinforcing their beliefs.

"If the notion of a market in faith-based video games seems unlikely, so too, 15 years ago, did the idea of Christian pop music as a moneymaking enterprise."

Irrelevant. While musical styles change here and there, something that sounds good now will probably sound good in 15 years. Compare that with the gaming industry where a game that looked great 2 years ago is considered awful by today's standards. These Christian games, like the one about the mad cow trying to stop people from eating meat, look HORRIBLE, and nobody except the converted are going to buy into the message or the game at all with a product that looks like that.

The problem with Christian games is that they have this insane drive to constantly preach and preach and preach and preach and preach and... do you understand? That's not a game, its a never ending sermon! Why not concentrate on games that would be appropriate for Christians instead? Toss in Christian imagery to puzzle games. Make an entertaining action game. Make a game about the crusades, if nothing else its historically accurate. Sure its got lots of extreme violence, but it was all properly sanctioned killings.

Or do they not want to acknowledge that little bypass of commandment # 1? Oh well, sweep it under the rug and play a game where lasers from swords forcibly twist the will of Roman soldiers and convert them to Christianity against their will. Oh its ok, they were supposedly "posessed." I guess you're not destroying the Roman soldier's core personality and twisting their will for your benefit. Right.

I don't want to sweep the crusades under the rug, but glorifying them in a game sure isn't any better.

"The problem with Christian games is that they have this insane drive to constantly preach and preach and preach and preach and preach and... do you understand? That's not a game, its a never ending sermon!"

Replace "preach" with "teach" and put it in the context of educational games, and you're basically echoing the sentiments of reviewers who bash educational games for not being the same as AAA titles designed to entertain. Of course they're intended to convey a message, I don't think that's a drastic revelation here.

I totally agree that zapping Roman soldiers to "convert" them is ridiculous and devoid of meaning. But as with other serious games, pointing the finger at poor games that have been made does not prove that making a good one is impossible.

I sort of look at the current state of Christian games as being the gaming equivalent of Stryper - embarassing, and trying too hard to fit into the genre of the day. But the Christian music industry managed to grow out of that and produce P.O.D., Switchfoot, and other bands which broke into the mainstream without abandoning either their faith or their artistic integrity (just to use the most popular examples). Maybe Christian games will hit that point someday.

In the meantime, there are a lot of great games out there besides Doom3.

Just to clarify, I was just kidding about a game based on the Crusades, though it would probably sell.

'Replace "preach" with "teach" and put it in the context of educational games, and you're basically echoing the sentiments of reviewers who bash educational games for not being the same as AAA titles designed to entertain. Of course they're intended to convey a message, I don't think that's a drastic revelation here.'

Wrong. Per the NYT article

''I've always just loved video games, I was one of the guys playing Pong. When I became a Christian in 1992, I still wanted to play, but it was hard when the best-quality games out there were Doom, Quake -- Satanic stuff, you know? Stuff that if I went to church on Sunday and came home and wanted to play a video game, I kind of felt a little bit guilty about it. I tried to find other games out there that were Christian, and there were none. Absolutely nothing. I'm the kind of guy that when I see something that's not being done, I want to do it myself.''

Clearly the impetus was to find and/or create Christian gaming for the purpose of entertainment. So yes, I'm bashing it for being a preachy title under the guise of entertainment.

As for the issue of using the word preach, lets look at the definition of the word:

preach

VERB:

preached , preachｷing , preachｷes

VERB:

tr.

1. To proclaim or put forth in a sermon: preached the gospel.

2. To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with: preached tolerance and peaceful coexistence.

3. To deliver (a sermon).

"preach" is quite a fitting word for these so called games.

But it explicitly describes itself as Christian. It's not like it's trying to sneak it's way onto store shelves, blend in with Halo 2, and accidentally end up in Little Johnny's XBox when his mom goes to buy him a present. They even talk about wanting to have a Christian section on game shelves, as there is with music.

If something is labelled "Christian entertainment", isn't that pretty obviously intended to convey a Christian message? And if so, what's the issue? If someone doesn't want to play a game that has the developer's religious beliefs expressed in it, then they can avoid it.

Anyway, enough nitpicking. I suspect that there'd be less complaining of these games' preachiness if it wasn't so superficial, which gets back to my first point. There are examples of games which convey a moral through the gameplay and story.

(Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith comes to mind. It has no "morally relativistic" Dark Side ending, and the final choice you make in the ending of the game did an amazing job of conveying the difference between embracing your hate or expressing love and trust to a friend.)

I think I left a thought unfinished there.

There are examples of games which convey morals through the gameplay and story. So why can't Christian games do the same, and still be equally focused on making an excellent game as they are on expressing their message?

Ok, the point I got from the article is that the author wanted to find an entertaining game he could play that would not offend him as a Christian. He didn't say he was looking for a learning experience. He said he was looking for entertainment.

You're right, there are examples of games which convey morals through the gameplay and story. The key part is they are games first, and teaching tools second. Christian games seem to be about preaching the message first, and then tossing in a game second. The game has taken a back seat to the message. Consider the kind of player these games are intended for. They already know the message! Now they just want to have a good time. And they load the game and get... laser swords that forcibly convert supposedly posessed Roman soldiers? Come on!

You asked If something is labelled "Christian entertainment", isn't that pretty obviously intended to convey a Christian message?

I always took it to mean that it was appropriate for Christians to play, not as a teaching tool, similar to how Kosher food is still edible and tasty (except for gefilte fish, I don't know, nor do I intend to find out) for everyone.

For instance. Tetris-that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. No occult symbols, no Satan, no moral issues, just puzzle solving involving abstract images.

Again, I understand your point but you have to remember that the guy was looking for a fun game to play. Not a teaching tool, but a fun game.

Also, I take him to task for refusing to play games like Doom 3 because its Satanic. His argument is retarded. The game has you fighting AGAINST Satan directly. That should be a rallying cry for playing the game, not a reason to avoid it. I mean how often does one get a chance to directly repell the forces of hell?

Well, I'll add a comment or two here.

First comment: those who know me well enough to talk about religion with me will tell you that I'm a very anti-religion kind of guy. My personal belief is that religion went to hell in a hand basket the day some money-grubbing power-hungry idiot decided that religion needed to be "organized."

Second Comment: Me doing a couple of seminars at ther CGDC was a suprise to quite a few folks - me included. (And, yes, when asked, I assured them that I wouldn't say anything that would offend anyone.)

Third Comment: If you put aside the very volitile religious aspect of the whole thing, the folks I met - and who attended my talks - were sincere folks trying to do some creative things that they really believed in, and that fall outside the "normal" scope of the game industry.

There are plenty of folks out there (for example, my friendly VP at Sony who told me with religous conviction that I "obviously don't know anything about the Internet or game design") who feel that I'm tilting at windmills trying to make people think about the world around them and how they interact with other players. So while I may personally be totally in disagreement with the content and theme of the games these folks are doing, I can also empathize with what they are doing.

(Funny thing about being an old hippy. You can get a little eccentric and everyone just figures you're an old fart. And they don't hold it against you later.)